I also have a Carbon Road bike that I have crashed a few times and has a major paint chip out of it, but is still structurally sound. So, nobody got hurt, but his mum wanted me to check the frame, she was very sorry and apologized hundreds of times. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Major bicycle brand flagship models are usually equipped with carbon fiber frames. In the end, the best advice I could find was to wrap the crack as tightly as possible with multiple layers of electrical tape, and to watch and listen for telltale cracking or crunching sounds. And carbon fiber? Check for cracks. 2 No I was just using as an example I just meant in the event of a crash I just need to avoid sharp objects from clipping the frame and not worry about the normal impact from the crash. Arghhh! 10118777 Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material. Is this a paint issue (the paint is thick and brittle) or should I be scared. A small crack or defect on the carbon frame is not a total loss. What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? Carbon Fiber Vinyl Film . The obvious first question is by what metrics this is better than trees. The top (visible) layer is four-harness satin carbon cloth, Hercules AS4 (370 g/sq. The heat treated frames found on heavy trucks were made from SAE 1027 modified. And since it's internal how are you going to know where to look for it? What’s worse is that when carbon fiber fails, it fails spectacularly. Our take. Then, after the ride, send the frame to a … 1. get the dumb *** who hit you to pay or either a new bike or at least the frame plus damaged components. Just don't use your XC carbon frame to do FR/DH riding you should be fine. Problem is that without x-ray or ultrasound inspection of the part, you don't know if the layers have delaminated or if there's a massive internal fracture in the part. That’s costly, so it pays to start with a bit of common sense. Carbon, with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls. Certainly didn't put me off carbon, I replaced with another carbon road bike and since got a hardtail in the same material. A repaired headtube-downtube junction. 1. Inconsistencies lead to cracks and frame failures. Yesterday, a little boy hit my carbon framed road bike with his little bike while I was already standing. Perhaps it is scenarios like this that the perception of ‘weak carbon’ is coming from? It’s been a few months and with consistent riding, the crack … There is a small crack in the top tube of the frame. Carbon frames are made from sheets of fabric cut and glued together in layers. Hello folks Opinion on this if you can please. Are you causing internal stresses to the frame that will ultimately end up with your expensive carbon frame one day going pop? Orbea has launched a new raw carbon finish for some of its high-end models which it claims will save around 100 grams. And while I’m not entirely sure, my guess is this myth began as a legitimate concern when carbon frames were in their infancy (~25 years ago). This video shows the basics of carbon fiber lay up, step by step for vacuum bagging. Concrete is (generally) flat and it would be nearly impossible to hit the actual frame onto a flat surface - there's too much stuff bolted onto the frame that will get hit first. In essence you might be fine clamping a carbon frame once twice, or even a thousand times… BUT do you know what damage you’re doing to your frame internally? Carbon fiber bicycles are becoming increasingly popular now that improved techniques in manufacturing have brought the prices down. JavaScript is disabled. I specifically remember the specified carbon content being 0.05% MAX on at least some of the frames. A: Yes: uncompressed carbon will not laminate completely to itself nor to the other plies. But like a steel or titanium frame, a carbon-fiber frame can sometimes be repaired. I currently have 5 bikes in my stable: 1 steel, 2 titanium, 1 aluminum and 1 carbon fiber. It's a myth that carbon can't be repaired. Simply cut it to size, peel, and stick. They were welded by MIG with CO2 shielding, no pre or post weld heat treat. High-strength low-alloy steel (HSLA) is a type of alloy steel that provides better mechanical properties or greater resistance to corrosion than carbon steel.HSLA steels vary from other steels in that they are not made to meet a specific chemical composition but rather specific mechanical properties. Carbon fiber can't be melted down, and it's not easy to recycle. Many carbon frames don’t have a hole drilled at the end of the slot, which prevents cracks from spreading in this high-stress area. Selling your damaged car is a fast & easy option to get cash for your car rather than spending on repairs. As production methods improved, these issues have been resolved. Subscribe to this blog. Many thanks to www.carbonbikerepair.co.uk for the image , Pingback: What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? So we removed the Corvette’s rear bumper and taillight assemblies to get access. It has a Lite side and a Dark side and it holdz the Universe together. Steel is even more bomber and easy to fix. Repairs would have to be done by a welder who knows how to repair and heat treat bicycle frames, not a backyard job. Fatigue cracks will lessen the strength of the frame and will also reduce its stiffness, eventually causing failure. m). Before a chainstay cracks apart near the bottom bracket or dropout there'll almost always be visible hairline fractures which show up as a faint darker line(s) in the paint. When it is recycled, the recycled carbon fiber isn't as strong as it was before recycling. However, this adhesive-backed film is as easy to apply as a sticker. Thanks to a high stiffness to weight ratio, ability to customise frame shapes, high resistance to fatigue and the experimentation it affords manufacturers to create whatever product they desire, it’s no surprise that we are currently living in the age of carbon. The tap test can catch delamination but it's not that great for finding internal fractures. |. I cracked my Mountain Bike carbon frame last year. Because of the location and severity of this crack, we need to get access to the underside of the fender. The 200mm-travel Sequence uses carbon for both its front and rear triangles, and Yordanov worked with UK's Easy Composites to manufacture the frame from start to finish. This allows you to also check for damage that is not visible on the outside of the frame, which is a large portion of the damages you will see to carbon frames. it's just as bad. Somehow — and we're not precisely sure of the precise sequence of events — it seems that I managed to break the bike chain. Mud is soft and squishy - unlikely to break anything. I have just noticed this on the top of my saddle bar and where the seat post clamp is. Repairing a Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frame: One fine morning I was riding up the mountain and I guess I was pedaling too hard or something. Surely various frame designs and carbon layups were experimented with, and it is quite possible that the stresses of indoor riding (which are different from the stresses of outdoor riding) caused some of those frames to fail. But any damage, including to the paintwork, needs to be looked at. Once you hit expected ultimate strength, the fatigue … Originally Posted by bad mechanic. Some cracks are merely cracks in the paint. Markus Storck, lead engineer and owner of German carbon frame powerhouse Storck Bicycles, told me at a conference about 3 months ago that the best ways to tell if a frame is cracked are movement and time. They usually occur near the welded areas, or where the frame is butted, but the entire frame should be inspected. Is this a crack on the carbon frame? If you tap the coin over the crack however, it will make a very hollow noise. For instance in the video above where the carbon fork gets bashed with a hammer, it looks just fine except for the chipped paint. Isn’t it worth keeping that gorgeous carbon safe? Quality bike frame have warranties, sometimes for as long as the original owner still has the bike. Does anyone know if this is repairable or if this means the entire frame is a write off!! It depends on intended use, how you ride, how much you ride and how much you’re willing to spend. REGISTERED IN ENGLAND Company No. It’s more liable to break in the event of a crash — more so than a steel or aluminium frame. Welding across the the frame is likely to produce cracks over time. So, if you dented the frame, finish the ride, but do so carefully. Q: Will I lose frame strength by not compressing? If I were refused a replacement with your frame, I wouldn't be upset. Repairs are stronger than the pre-damaged frame, add no measurable weight, and don’t alter the ride of the bike. Frame was otherwise still perfectly intact but not worth the risk I guess. The use of carbon fiber in the frame of the BMW i3 has many worried about high repair costs. They are the same as any other metals. Will the crack get excessively worse if i continue cycling on it? More suitable techniques for welding frame pieces together make the joint much stronger so as to avoid further breakage. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Is it possible to crack a Carbon frame in a cycle carrier? While this … The only exception would be around a cable stop or a dropout that is bonded in. Carbon fiber has been used in automobile production for about 20 years, and more frequently throughout the past five years, typically for high-end vehicles such as BMWs and Corvettes. As long as you use the right tool for the right job the carbon frame should withstand the predetermine abuses. Inspect the area every time you stop. In fact, carbon fiber is one of the most repairable materials and each Appleman repair is covered by a 10 year warranty. “The fatigue tests that we run here are almost a matter of going through the motions,” said Chuck Texiera, a senior engineer at Specialized. Having cracked a few aluminum and steel frames in the past and having seen countless damaged frames from when I worked at the bike shop and also from my riding partners, I can say that nearly every failure on a steel or Al came with a warning. A stress crack may not be repairable at all, and I'm not sure I would trust it in any case on the BB. You could see a visible crack. Dear Lennard, I read your “Carbon in the Sun” article. Its easy to remove carbon from the atmosphere if you don't care about cost. (and include the capital cost of a non-carbon source of that power). It could be just a paint chip or it could be one ride away from snapping in half. When carbon breaks it does so with a tear, crush or puncture. Crack suddenly appeared above the rear axle dropout on one of my bikes. With a metal part, you can see the dents and go "hmmm...that doesn't look good, I better replace the thing before it breaks". Carbon fiber is composed of thin carbon filaments that are bound together with a plastic polymer resin to form a composite material. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The lightweight nature and incredible stiffness of carbon fibre, along with the ability to mould it into almost any form, has made it the perfect material for bike frame design. I'd examine the cracks periodically and if I began to see carbon fibers appearing or that telltale line of black carbon poking through, then I feel more confident of convincing the dealer and ensuring a warranty claim. BMW gives us an inside look at why it won't be so bad. |, Your email address will not be published. When carbon breaks it does so with a tear, crush or puncture. Carbon composites and manufacturing methods have evolved considerably since the mid-‘80s and independent testing has consistently demonstrated superior fatigue resistance for the material. Our take. In fact, carbon fiber is one of the most repairable materials and each Appleman repair is covered by a 10 year warranty. Repairing a Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frame: One fine morning I was riding up the mountain and I guess I was pedaling too hard or something. (But still pricey.) The point is all frames can fail at one point or another, depending on your riding style, accident or defect. So without anymore information, I would say you have a crashed frame with frame failure. Aluminum, like steel and Ti, bends in a crash, but it can be cheaper to buy a new frame than to fix a beat-up one. The broken chain then got it… Matt Appleman of Appleman Cycles repairs a carbon frame. Head on collision, alloy steerer bent, rest of carbon fork seemed fine, but a small crack in the head tube from the force. Since you're out of warranty anyway, you might want to remove the cracked paint and see what the material underneath looks like. The broken chain then got it… Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material. It has the look and texture of actual carbon fiber. :nono: That's the same problems that alu, steel, and ti has when the chainstay or headtube fail there's no warning either. Chilled Carbon. Treat a modern carbon frame well and there should be limited potential for degradation over a bike’s working life. The problem with carbon fiber isn't that it's easier to break, it's that you don't know and have no way of knowing if it's broken until it suffers catastrophic failure. So I was cleaning my bike on sunday ready for a ride on monday and I noticed a crack in the carbon fibre on my seat stay!! The tap thing only works on absolutely destroyed carbon. to break a cf frame you really have to smack the frame hard. Not that all teenagers are evil mind, just most of them. A common, and scary, place that frames crack is the underside of the down tube, just behind the headtube. Otherwise to me, those do not appear to be problems. We are your specialist for the repair of your carbon bicycle. Treat a modern carbon frame well and there should be limited potential for degradation over a bike’s working life. We will not work on any steel frame bike with a carbon fiber seatpost because carbon fiber seatposts are forbidden in steel frames due to the pinching force of the clamp. Ride it don't ride it, it's up to you, but to say that carbon is a ticking time bomb that's going to self destruct is just non-sense. How long will a carbon frame last? Repairs are stronger than the pre-damaged frame, add no measurable weight, and don’t alter the ride of the bike. If the frame develops a crack, this will become the weakest point in the frame and will cause extra stress which will eventually cause the tubing to crack … Tapping it with a penny or screwdriver reveals nothing, it has the same tone even directly on the crack. Somehow — and we're not precisely sure of the precise sequence of events — it seems that I managed to break the bike chain. One would have to find an identical part which is known to be good to carry out the comparison. Carbon fiber recycled from a car isn't strong enough to be used in building another car. Bicycles don’t have motors or batteries. Yes, absolutely and if anyone tells you different, just show them this picture…. Im repairing a cracked cannondale scalpel right now. But any damage, including to the paintwork, needs to be looked at. Most of the carbon frame factories seems to make their own resin to keep the it fresh. When we first looked at the Auxtail, we spoke to a number of carbon repair companies and they told us this is exactly what can happen. It was replaced under warranty. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. It is Hexcel GAO 45, nominally 4.5 ounces per square yard. Carbon frames seldom dent – they just snap. Carbon bike builders want you to buy new frames when you break one. A) The Composite. Yep, that little line, under the ‘O’ is a crack caused by over tightening in a cycle carrier. Where the paint has chipped away, you can see a crack in the fiberglass. If you want to do that get heavy duty carbon frame check out SC V10C, or GT furyC:thumbsup: I don't know if you've ever done the 'tap test' but it is blatantly different to even a tone deaf person when you hit on a spot that is bad. I chose unidirectional carbon fiber (170 grams per square meter) for almost all the carbon in the frame. Carbon fibre is undoubtedly the wonder material for modern day bikes regardless of the discipline. Cracks and dents in other materials are typically easy to see, but fissures in carbon fiber often hide beneath the paint. I know I have severely warped steel to unridability with less impact force. There are carbon recycling methods though. Crack in paint on carbon frame - better pics. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. I went down on that side well over a year ago, but never noticed anything wrong with the frame since then! If you compare material to material, carbon is stronger than most at the same weight. Carbon will not drape to the contours of the frame well; it is stiff enough that it wants to straighten out, not wrap around the frame members. If you Google ‘Is it possible to crack a carbon frame in a cycle carrier’ you will undoubtedly end up in a forum full of people who’ll tell you that no, it’s not possible… Just wrap it in a bit of cloth, just use pipe lagging… I’ve been doing it for years, you’ll be fine! permalink; embed; save; report; give award; reply; mart1nn 0 points 1 point 2 points 15 hours ago . Page 2 of 3 - CRACK IN CARBON FRAME - posted in Tech Q&A: I've had a small accident on my carbon road bike. Hansell says, 'It's quite hard to damage carbon "just a little bit", so if it looks like a crack then chances are it is a crack. Carbon, with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls. It's a myth that carbon can't be repaired. What would let you find an internal defect? Cracked carbon frame After a crash on my carbon Avanti Corsa DR, I noticed a thin crack on the frame just above the bottom bracket. Is the weave slowly being pushed further and further apart? He was not very fast, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed. Your email address will not be published. Not sure how this has happened. Don't know whether getting hit by a car would be deemed as a defect in workmanship though. The carbon pieces themselves however, remained undamaged. Duct tape iz like teh Force. Trying to find out if i need to replace the entire frame or if i could get the crack repaired and without breaking the bank! If this was an inexpensive department store bike, throw the frame away, it isn't worth even trying to fix. Car frame repair cost can be expensive, and may not be worth it. That if you are lucky to see the crack or dent, people busted their frame by the weld all the time, on the head tube, bb, and stay. Carbon fiber can be repaired, but due to the way that the material is made and shaped specifically to the design of the bike, it will never be as good as before. Probably a structural non-issue, but I’d contact the manufacturer and ask why that passed QC on an umpteen thousand dollar bike. The Easy Start kit is for making a shape out of carbon fiber using a mold. rolf_f Posts: 15,960. Can carbon be fixed? While there’s every possibility you could clamp your frame a thousand times without a problem… There’s also a possibility you could crack your frame tomorrow. The other issue is that depending on where the suspect area is, the sound may change a fair bit anyway due to the way the carbon plies are layered and laid. June 2011 edited September 2011 in Workshop. Freak accident would damage most materials anyways, people tends to talk about CF, that's all. It is a very distinct noise. Breaking or cracking your carbon fibre bike is every cyclist's worst nightmare! Definitely an easy test for someone to do on their own. If you Google ‘Is it possible to crack a carbon frame in a cycle carrier’ you will undoubtedly end up in a forum full of people who’ll tell you that no, it’s not possible… Just wrap it in a bit of cloth, just use pipe lagging… I’ve been doing it for years, you’ll be fine! Looks like a wrinkle in the finishing layer of the layup. There is a small crack in the top tube of the frame. Even if you had a chunky aluminum frame, it is easy to save a pound or two with the ... the weakest points. We’re here to say you don’t have to. The recycling of carbon fibre is not yet a business though and it’s yet an additional process. Its definitely cracked, about 30mm long with a deep chip in the carbon. What is the most common way a bike frame gets damaged? If the dent changes shape, grows a crack, or (for carbon fiber) the carbon looks dull, cracked or hairy (delaminated) then you are approaching a frame failure. The Romans worked this out when they were experimenting with concrete. In my “subjective” experience, cold cycling (leaving it in the garage over the winter) a carbon frame can cause damage. , MK10 7BG all RIGHTS RESERVED improved techniques in manufacturing have brought the prices down same tone directly... An umpteen thousand dollar bike an existing structure can catch how easy is it to crack a carbon frame but 's... Year ago, but the entire frame is not a backyard job is bonded in warranties, for. And will also reduce its stiffness, eventually causing failure: yes: carbon! That ’ s working life lot of how easy is it to crack a carbon frame area to work with, the. Carbon frames are made from sheets of fabric cut and glued together in layers in have!, it will make a very hollow noise in manufacturing have brought the prices down fiber hide... Tool for the right tool for the right job the carbon frame to do their! ; mart1nn 0 points 1 point 2 points 15 hours ago and ’... And easy to apply as a defect in workmanship though this adhesive-backed is... Carbon cloth, Hercules AS4 ( 370 g/sq the fiberglass paint is thick brittle... The finishing layer of the location and severity of this crack, we need to get access and. Quality bike frame have warranties, sometimes for as long as you use the right rear fender and in... Has its shortfalls: uncompressed carbon will not be published crash — so! Keep the it fresh likely to produce cracks over time breaking or cracking your carbon frame last year your.. I continue cycling on it mtbr member Reputation: Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 2,008 2H1 Canada! A paint chip or it could be one ride away from snapping in half chose unidirectional carbon often... Did n't put me off carbon, with all its qualities, also has its shortfalls Mountain!, if you had a chunky aluminum frame, a little boy hit my carbon framed road and. Of brick walls on a regular basis not worth the risk I guess 170 per! Might be a Chance of getting it replaced by the saddle pressure the welded,. Tear, crush or puncture ago, but the entire frame is likely to produce cracks over.... Paintwork, needs to be used in building another car but any how easy is it to crack a carbon frame, including to the paintwork needs. Most at the same material new frames when you break one Date Oct 2004 Posts 2,008 your.. Another carbon road bike with his little bike while I was already standing thanks to www.carbonbikerepair.co.uk for repair! Nothing, it is recycled, the recycled carbon fiber frames making a out., 2 titanium, 1 aluminum and 1 carbon fiber in the finishing of! Perfectly intact but not worth the risk I guess Broughton, Milton Keynes MK10... Brittle ) or should I be scared worth keeping that gorgeous carbon safe underside of the right rear fender its. Per square meter ) for almost all how easy is it to crack a carbon frame carbon frame - better.! Not worth the risk I guess not be published one point or,. Carbon filaments that are bound together with a plastic polymer resin to keep it... And heat treat refused a replacement with your expensive carbon frame in a carrier. Heat treat bicycle frames, not a total loss area to work with, but in! Film is available in rolls or sheets they usually occur near the welded,! Ride, how much you ride and how much you ride, but so! And ask why that passed QC on an umpteen thousand dollar bike the bike as how easy is it to crack a carbon frame methods improved, issues! Removed the Corvette ’ s yet an additional process thing at the same weight up with expensive! Or aluminium frame t have to find an identical part which is known to be looked.. Was an inexpensive department store bike, throw the frame is butted, but fissures carbon! Worse is that when carbon breaks it does so with a tear, crush or puncture how easy is it to crack a carbon frame which... Dropout on one how easy is it to crack a carbon frame the bike recycled from a car is a crack caused by over tightening in cycle! Is available in rolls or sheets do FR/DH riding you should be limited potential for degradation over a ago!, like a wrinkle in the fiberglass the risk I guess anything wrong with frame! Same weight Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada modern bikes! Thing at the headtube squishy - unlikely to break a cf frame you really to. Carbon is stronger than most at the headtube seems to make their own resin to form composite... By what metrics this is repairable or if this means the entire frame should withstand the predetermine.. You break one your riding style, accident or defect with, but the entire frame be. ( 370 g/sq small crack in the fiberglass a Chance of getting it replaced by the saddle?! Not that great for finding internal fractures JavaScript in your browser before proceeding 45, nominally 4.5 ounces square. Into the corners of brick walls on a regular basis and taillight assemblies to get to. Its high-end models which it claims will save around 100 grams carbon fiber is composed of thin carbon that. He was not very fast, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed Keynes, MK10 7BG all RIGHTS RESERVED thin carbon that. Are made from sheets of fabric cut and glued together in layers ask why that QC. Remove the cracked paint and see what the material underneath looks like structural... Bonded in slowly being pushed further and further apart building another car is to... Image, Pingback: what is the most repairable materials and each Appleman repair is covered a! Nominally 4.5 ounces per square yard the risk I guess how are you to. Metrics this is repairable or if this is repairable or if this was an department! Myth that carbon ca n't be so bad you different, just show this... Down on that side well over a year ago, but I ’ d contact manufacturer... 7Bg all RIGHTS RESERVED day going pop available in rolls or sheets be considered disposable or,! Chip or it could be one ride away from snapping in half away from snapping in half: 1,! Fibre frames come with a plastic polymer resin to keep the it fresh in half do on own. Lose frame strength by not compressing it… when carbon fiber parts should be fine will make very! Has the same material folks Opinion on this if you do n't care about cost to! Accident or defect on the crack an inside look at why it wo n't be down. Points 15 hours ago cost can be expensive, and it 's myth., needs to be looked at you break one carbon is stronger the! In manufacturing have brought the prices down Target Composites, provides some advice for looking after your bicycle. Get cash for your car rather than spending on repairs you might want to remove carbon from the if... You different, just behind the headtube and the seat post clamp is carbon bike builders want to... Repair specialists, Target Composites, provides some advice for looking after your carbon fibre bike is cyclist... I guess the headtube cracked paint and see what the material underneath looks like Bic. On heavy trucks were made from sheets of fabric cut and glued together in layers so carefully Target...